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Quell Pottmes, the first black KS (German Champion).
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Pottsiepen Kennel Information:
Because our kennel is big on black shorthairs I pay attention to any information on the blacks. I have seen in many of our pedigrees and many other kennels the Pottsiepen lines. The big name in blacks from the past has always been the Pottmes kennel that is the oldest kennel in Germany. I figured that the Pottsiepen kennel might be an offshoot of the Pottmes kennel but no information was to be found. Most responses went into great detail about the Pottmes kennel because they are well know. I would get that the two were not related. But I figured that they might be connected at least thru the dogs. At least the black color of the Pottsiepen dogs coming from the black dogs of the Pottmes kennel. I was able to find that the Pottsiepen kennel owner was Paul Kohmen who died in 2009. The Pottsiepen kennel being in German, and that Riverwoods kennel which is an American and is a Deutsch Kurzhaar kennel was responsible in the dogs coming to the US. Not much else was known. I wanted to know about the Pottsiepen kennel and what they bred for, if they were hunters, and what dogs they used. After a post on the Facebook Black German Shorthair page, I got a response by the DK breed warden Richard Runge who I already talked to in the past about the German DK dogs. As a matter of fact he was reasonable for me getting the solid black DK dog Buck. The string went like this:
Richard Runge Randy Randall what is it you would like to know ? I have traced this line and it is the mother line for my kennel
Like · Reply · 21 hrs
Randy Randall HI Richard, it's been a while hope all is well. I keep seeing the lines, and now see that it looks like Riverwoods kennel might be how they got over here. I would like to hear the story of Paul Kohnen and his kennel. I have been able to find a pedigree and see some of the dogs and kennels behind the Pottsiepen kennel. I would guess that the Pottmes black line being so much used in Germany would be the blacks used in Pottsiepen dogs, if this is not so what blacks were used?
Like · Reply · 20 hrs
Richard Runge Randy Randall, it was Pottmes, thru the Wasserschling lines. Undo vom Wasserschling
Like · Reply · 1 · 10 hrs
Richard Runge Undi vom Wasserschling was a granddaughter of Quell KS Pottmes, Undi was the mother of Cora vom Pottsiepen, and Cora is the start of the Pottsiepen line, the A & B litter vom Pottsiepen did not do much so everything is based of Cora and then her daughter Diana who was bred back to Wasserschling, Condor vom Wasserschling was bred back to Cora to get Diana vom Pottsiepen and Condor and Cora were related thru the "T" litter vom Wasserschling
Like · Reply · 1 · 10 hrs
Richard Runge When Diana was bred back to Blanc KS vom Hege Haus this is where Pottsiepen really got noticed, 4 of 6 puppies went on to pass VGP prize 1 and 3 of them were KS later on. Riverwoods was very instrumental in bringing in the Pottsiepen line to the USA, and this is where I started my line, so I did my research and found a very biddable, yet strong desire
Like · Reply · 1 · 10 hrs
Richard Runge Randy, as far as knowing the story of Paul K. Rob Engelking would be the best source here, Rob knew him very well
This is the Photo that Richard sent with his reply.
Because our kennel is big on black shorthairs I pay attention to any information on the blacks. I have seen in many of our pedigrees and many other kennels the Pottsiepen lines. The big name in blacks from the past has always been the Pottmes kennel that is the oldest kennel in Germany. I figured that the Pottsiepen kennel might be an offshoot of the Pottmes kennel but no information was to be found. Most responses went into great detail about the Pottmes kennel because they are well know. I would get that the two were not related. But I figured that they might be connected at least thru the dogs. At least the black color of the Pottsiepen dogs coming from the black dogs of the Pottmes kennel. I was able to find that the Pottsiepen kennel owner was Paul Kohmen who died in 2009. The Pottsiepen kennel being in German, and that Riverwoods kennel which is an American and is a Deutsch Kurzhaar kennel was responsible in the dogs coming to the US. Not much else was known. I wanted to know about the Pottsiepen kennel and what they bred for, if they were hunters, and what dogs they used. After a post on the Facebook Black German Shorthair page, I got a response by the DK breed warden Richard Runge who I already talked to in the past about the German DK dogs. As a matter of fact he was reasonable for me getting the solid black DK dog Buck. The string went like this:
Richard Runge Randy Randall what is it you would like to know ? I have traced this line and it is the mother line for my kennel
Like · Reply · 21 hrs
Randy Randall HI Richard, it's been a while hope all is well. I keep seeing the lines, and now see that it looks like Riverwoods kennel might be how they got over here. I would like to hear the story of Paul Kohnen and his kennel. I have been able to find a pedigree and see some of the dogs and kennels behind the Pottsiepen kennel. I would guess that the Pottmes black line being so much used in Germany would be the blacks used in Pottsiepen dogs, if this is not so what blacks were used?
Like · Reply · 20 hrs
Richard Runge Randy Randall, it was Pottmes, thru the Wasserschling lines. Undo vom Wasserschling
Like · Reply · 1 · 10 hrs
Richard Runge Undi vom Wasserschling was a granddaughter of Quell KS Pottmes, Undi was the mother of Cora vom Pottsiepen, and Cora is the start of the Pottsiepen line, the A & B litter vom Pottsiepen did not do much so everything is based of Cora and then her daughter Diana who was bred back to Wasserschling, Condor vom Wasserschling was bred back to Cora to get Diana vom Pottsiepen and Condor and Cora were related thru the "T" litter vom Wasserschling
Like · Reply · 1 · 10 hrs
Richard Runge When Diana was bred back to Blanc KS vom Hege Haus this is where Pottsiepen really got noticed, 4 of 6 puppies went on to pass VGP prize 1 and 3 of them were KS later on. Riverwoods was very instrumental in bringing in the Pottsiepen line to the USA, and this is where I started my line, so I did my research and found a very biddable, yet strong desire
Like · Reply · 1 · 10 hrs
Richard Runge Randy, as far as knowing the story of Paul K. Rob Engelking would be the best source here, Rob knew him very well
This is the Photo that Richard sent with his reply.
A following search, as well as looking at pedigrees gave me the rest of what I have to date. Quell Pottmes was the first black and white KS, (1970). He was used quite a bit, but his grandson WS Ciro Vom Bichtelward was a black and white grandson of Quell and was to become one of the most used stud dogs in German history, maybe even more than Axel v Wassershling. Ciro was purchased by the famous Hede-Haus kennel, Stramann wanted to improve the conformatin of the inbred Hege-Haus dogs, with head and hindquarters a particular priority. This only goes to show how influential the blacks have become. So then I see in Georgina Byrne's book that a Ciro grandson KS Raurief v. Hege-Haus was purchased after careful research by a syndicate of Scandinavian breeders for improvement of the breed in that part of the world. That tells me that KS Rauhreif v Hege-Haus in Orson v Pottsiepen's pedigree is also a Pottmes influanced dog. Big breed influence from the black and white dog Ciro. Now with all these dogs put into my pedigree program I'm able at a click to see just how the Pottsiepen dogs in Orson pedigree were related to the Pottmes dogs. Eleven out of 16 great great grandparents are related to Pottmes dogs. Every grand parent and great grandparent were also related. So as you can see, the Pottsiepen kennel and surprisingly the Hege-Haus kennel were greatly influenced by the Pottmes kennel. Now I just wish I knew more about Paul Kohmen.
The circled dogs in the pedigree go back to Pottmes dogs.
KS Ciro Vom Bichtelwald
These are the grandparents of Olson Vom Pottsiepen
