I X Rayed Jack's Hips, Elbows, and Spine at 9 years old to show how remarkable the hips are on German Shorthaired Pointers.
How Healthy is Healthy Enough?
German Shorthairs are about as healthy as any dogs. And believe me, ours are as healthy as anyone's. And we back that up better than anyone else. We have a health guarantee within our Everything guarantee. We will give you all your money back, and or give you another dog if you are not satisfied or can't keep our dog for any reason. Below I give you a lot of health information to think about. I do this within our breeding program information. All of our breeding dogs are tested for the above panel of tests. Cone Degeneration, Degenerative Myelopathy, Hyperuricosuria, and Von Willebrand Disease II. We have never had a dog test positive and only one Jill tested as a carrier of Hyperuricosuria, which is: Hyperuricosuria (HU) This disease is characterized by the excretion of uric acid leading to the formation of urinary calculi (stones) which may then require surgery. We have just recently switched over to a texting company that tests for every know genetic k9 disorder. Some 150 +. Read the below information, as well as: https://thewholedog.com/canine-hip-dysplasia-things-to-ponder/. If you have any questions please call me.
I am a retired law dog out of Ca. and was a K9 officer for many years. We and my family have hunted and have had hunting dogs my entire memory. I've seen first had how the old timers bred hunting dogs, and at my age I guess I'm getting to be one of those old timers.
I am completely 100% dedicated to the breeding better German Shorthairs. I do only one thing “Shorthaired Pointer”. I'm I the best? Heavens no. But my belief is if you give an American the time and resources he or she can do anything better than anyone because of our freedom.
A Shorthair first and foremost is a hunting dog. Well not just a hunting dog, but the worlds best hunting dog. And America is a land of hunting. We as Americans can hunt our Shorthairs every day if we wish, and I wish.
Now I know hunting dog breeders, and believe me most would never post about it on Facebook. The rush of readers would be to much so I am going to step out here in the hopes of helping someone. If I'm corrected in some of my ways and that helps others, that will be good to.
One example of a dog breeder, and hunter is my uncle Mike. His dad and my grandfather was a southern coon and possum hunter out of Texas, and of course brought his dogs to Northern California, and hunted there. He also raise game chickens which is a performance based breeding style.
Mike has been in the bear hunting and cat hunting game for almost 40 years. One of his great dogs has alone treed more than one hundred bears. Year after year a single passion to tree black bears. When we talk of the AKC, and show breeders and such he has little tolerance. “They have ruined more good hunting lines, etc.”
I asked him about genetic problems, and hip problems? Why would we have those. Those have been bred out. See a performance based program. Any dogs with any problems would be out of the breeding program. I once asked him about a young female and how she was doing. I already knew how she was doing because I watched her. Oh he said, she is real good. When I asked him who she was going to be breed to her? He said Bart. That's her father I said. He looked at me as if I had just made the stupidest comment. Yea he said, he is the best, and the best I have ever had. The pups should be wonderful. That about sums up most breeders of hunting dogs.
I've read everything I can about German Shorthair breeding and breeders as well as the pointers, and a lot of other hunting breeds as well. I'm a fan of the Elhew line and Wehle himself. The Pottmes, and Hege-Haus lines as well as many German lines were heavy inbred, as well as our own Moesgaard Shorthairs and field trial line, but most breeders think it's the end of the world.
It has gotten to the point where so many breeder think that their way is the only and best way. Their dogs, their testing, their format etc. Most don't really even have a breeding program, don't know where they are going or why, but have almost no tolerance of others. They stay within their click and all other clicks are wrong. And even within their own group, truth be known no one is really doing it right but them.
Think of this: No one should breed a Shorthair unless they do it with the idea of improving the breed with their pups. Sound good until you look at all the groups in the Shorthair world. A huge gene pool, as big or bigger that all other dog breed. The groups in part are: American Field, National Shoot to retrieve, North America Versatile Hunting Dog Association. Show Dogs, as well as Hunters with their goals of a perfect hunting dog for what they are hunting. Those are in American. Also in American are the German breeders of the Deutsch Kurzhaar. The DK club stand is that in reality the Kurzhaar is truly a separate breed form the American derivative, the German Shorthaired Pointer. The Kurzhaar is bred according to a strict set of breed standards, which require testing in ability, conformation, and temperament before being allowed to breed. The DK club has a breed master and strict set of rule and guide lines that the body as a whole abides by.
So what does that mean? Well in short what one group might consider as helping the breed as a whole, the next group would consider terrible, or at the least not so hot.
The German club does not even consider most American Shorthairs pure Shorthairs. One reason English Pointer being added for bigger run. Each group for there own reasons believes what they are doing is the best for the breed. Each breeder believes they are doing the best in their group.
So where is truth? Well for me it's in the belief that there are no bad German Shorthairs, and the gratefulness that so many before me have paved the way that I might give it a try.
My try consists of a lot of Shorthairs. Every single group has blessed our program. Every line we have looked at, kept, rejected, or blended. Each line and individual dog has been given the same chance. Almost all from puppies. But before I tell you what their chance is, let me tell you what we are looking for in an individual dog.
First and foremost I want a great temperament, not just good but the most loving and kind. A dog that loves people, other dogs and even pups. Many of our dogs will not even bark at you. They are so happy to have you visit. Most will however bark, just ask the neighbor.
Second, we want a natural point and back.
Third, we want a natural retrieve.
Fourth, a great love of water, and water retrieving.
Fifth, a dog that hunts with and for the hunter at close to medium range, and that can find birds or furred animals of course.
Lucky for the non hunter these are the same things that work for them. The average person wants a loving dog with a good temperament, stays close and comes back and walks, rides, and hikes. Loves the water, and will retrieve a ball.
Not all Shorthairs are like this or do this. Remember it's all in the genes.
So what is each puppies chance, and what must the pup do to stay in the program? In our breeding program we breed almost all dogs looking for an expected outcome. But some are for the purpose of proving a belief, such as a field trial or show dog bred to a versatile hunting dog will produce what we want in at least some of the pups, even though one side is weak.
Each litter is tested at seven weeks using a modified Vulhard hunting test. We look for happy pups, bold, calm, retrieving, and pointing. We select a pup to be kept back from the litter. We would like to do what Wehle did and keep each pup to a year and then select the best pup, but this is simply not possible. People think I'm crazy for keeping one.
The remainder of the litter is sold. We try and under price and over deliver. Each pup has a 100 percent guarantee. Yes for any reason, we will take a pup or full grown dog back. Give you all your money back and retrain the pup or dog and re-home it. If for some reason you did not do your part and the dog is let's say gun shy we will let you keep the dog and give you another one free. If the dog was to get Parvo and it was your fault, we will give you another dog. We will help you with the training of the dog, free for a while, then we will charge at a very low price because we want to see our dog. We will be here 24x7 to answer any question. If you go on vacation we will watch your dog free.
Ok, so we kept one back, now what? Well the new prospect will come into our home in the puppy room area with a dogie door. There will be other pack members who will show the pup the ropes. The pup will be fed the very best raw diet and dry dog food. The pup will start to go out with the other pups from another litter that always seems to be around. This will be modified real hunts in real hunting areas with some of the bigger dogs. The pups will also be taken often to the water.
At the end of the year we take a closer look at the pup. Each prospect puppy will have to meet the above goals. Some will be moved on to hunting homes as started dogs at a fraction of what others are selling started dogs for. Most will have hundreds of wild bird finds.
The ones we keep back will be the real deal, at least for us. In the past it was not unusual for a 16 or 20 week old pup to have hundreds of retrieves on wild bird.
But it does not stop there. We hunt fur as well so we will be hunting a lot of rabbits, always a few fox and cats. They must be sharp to their pray. They live in a pack so all must be good there. They eat, sleep, play and hunt in a pack. But this does not mean that it's a pack hunt. Each pup and dog also always hunts as an individual. I want to see how their hunting skills develop.
I want dog that get along. No fighting. It's in the genes as well as development. A mean dog will never stay in the program. Some look at a pack and think a wild mob with no purpose, no control and no cooperation. That simple is not the case. Well at least not after the 1st five minutes.
I use no shock collars and no whistles. Well I can whistle somewhat. The fact is the pack is so in-tuned to me that if I simple stop all the dogs will come back and check in. If I turn around they will all turn around without a sound. I will let the pups know, it will take a bit for them to get it. But for the most part, the very first few days the pups are on board.
One other reason that this works so well is all the big run genes have not been bred out. All the individuals who hunt for themselves are not in our program.
As an American breeder I'm am blessed. Because I can use all the Shorthair lines that are out there. I can and do use the German DK lines, form Germany and other countries that I and my friends have. I can and do use our older American lines that many don't know about. I use NAVHDA lines, NASTRA lines, Hunting lines, and yes in some of our lines we have American Field lines. I even breed to a 100 % show dog with good results.
So now you might be getting the idea. There is little guess work on our part of what lines contribute what. What happens when lines are crossed. I have so many hours of hunting behind so many lines and crosses that I think I get it.
There are also other things that a normal breeder of a few dogs never get to really learn. What is it really like to live and spend every moment with so many different lines. The ability to have more than one sire without having to go out and use a completely unknown sire. Like Wehle once said about a champion that was being used by so many. I raised that dog, I know what his real faults are, and what have been covered up with training.
This is how we raise our dogs and puppies. All dogs live free in the pack. They all can go into and out of a climate controlled house. Fresh air, water, best of food, lots of outings and hunting, and the most import love. We love them more that most people love their kids. There is no chain or dog house. No kennel and run. No whelping outside or in a kennel.
All pups are whelped in the house, cared and loved. Many people think it's ok to keep them in a small area after 5 weeks. We don't they are move to a trailer that has bedding, fresh water, food, air conditioning, heating, lighting and a radio, with their mother. The mother has a bed to jump up on and get away from the pups. Soon the mother will be removed so she can recover. In the day time the pups can venture outside. The trailer is fenced in and the puppy can explore their world. They are given stimuli because if fosters future leaning. The pups are locked inside at night. Because I worry something might get them. The pups are played with, fed raw twice a day and their bedding kept clean by Jackie who works with us. She would be offended if you called her well kept trailer dirty.
Health. 30 GSPs times 365 days = 10,950, times 10 years = 109,500. Add 60 pups a year = 219,000. This is a lot of dog and puppy days. Also think of approx. 500,000 dog mile in the field. Plus a lot of friends who have GSPs as well as puppy buyers.
What health problems and or injuries am I seeing? 23 or so rattle snake bites. No death, loss of one eye. Leg, probable the most common but with little or now after effects. With all the running and jumping. The dog acts as if it's hurt real bad and within a short time they are fine. Two visiting dogs got broken legs. One jumped out of a moving truck after chewing it's way out and the other a young dog broke it's front let after running into something. Both healed fine. One dog got a site problem. We had bred to a Versatile Champion, one of the few times I went outside our kennel. It did not prove to be Cone Degeneration that Shorthairs can be tested for. Our female was never bred to again. One of our girls came up holding her back leg. We x rayed for hips but nothing way found. She was fixed, and 12 years later she is still one of the strongest hunters we have. Simple no stop. A few over bits, never an under bit. Uncommon but can happen. We never breed a dog with a bad bite. I know someone who has a Versatile Champion who breeds to there's. I guess when you got that type of money into a dog, and that great title your going to breed it. I never would keep a dog that I did not think was near the quality I'm looking for. That said, breeding can solve problems, some times it takes awhile.
We had two dogs get Valley Fever, a white field trial dog and her white pup. This might mean something like an immune system that was not strong enough. We have had about six cases of the puppy mumps. Antibiotics with a hormone take care of this.
Puppies born with hernias, we have had a few. Considered either a product of the mother not correctly cutting the umbilical cord, or a genetic problem.
We have had two dogs with cherry eye. Long established lines. The two newer dogs in the mating have been removed from the breeding program. The owner was reimbursement for the total $725 dollar vet bill. He loves the dog and the dog is doing great. But it is probably genetic.
Other genetic areas that have come up and addressed is aggressiveness. Way to many breeders breed to their dogs that are aggressive. Can't do it. That is an advantage to raising a pup. You can clearly see the problem, knowing that it was genetic and not developed.
What I have never seen or heard of in our lines or anyone else's. Hip Dysplasia, Shorthairs are 98 percent dysplasia free. I just don't see it. Never heard of it. I have spent so much time on it's study. Spent time talking to the experts at OFA, and believe it's not a problem in our active hunting lines. Check out this for something to think about. Also spend some time on the OFA web site.
https://thewholedog.com/canine-hip-dysplasia-things-to-ponder/
Cone Degeneration (German Shorthared Pointer Type). This is an early onset, which means all puppies will show it early if they have it. About a 2% probability according to the people at Paw Print Genetics are carriers, none have tested positive for having it. They told me they are simply are not seeing it. Both parents must be carriers so once the parents are cleared as in most other cases the offspring do not need to be tested.
Degenerative Myelopathy, this is a late onset, so your dog might be 9 years old before it shows up. But if it does show up your in big trouble. About 4.2%. This in my opinion and confirmed by Paw Print Genetics is the most import to test for. Even though they are not finding it in the Shorthairs they are testing. Meaning none have tested positive for having Degenerative Myelopathy, the 4.2 % are carriers. A late onset can cause problems. This being said, I know of know breeders in our lines or anyone else's who have dogs dying from this. This is like Lou Gehrig's disease. Because it starts in the back area of the dog at first it can look as a hip problem.
Hyperuricosuria, This is an inherited condition of the urinary system. Less than 2%. Meaning tested positive as carriers. Again they are not finding this in the testing. I've never seen it or heard of anyone having it, however Jill tested as a carrier.
Von Willebrand Disease II, Bleeding disorder. Less that 2%. Non have shown up in their testing as having Vonwillebrand Disease.
These are the four main test.
Another one only tested at University Pennsylvania is Lupoid Dermatosis, A serious degenerative disease that is only found in Shorthairs. It is usually noticed before the dog is six months of age when the skin starts getting crusty with scaling on the head, face and torso. It's itchy, and the joints are swollen and sore.
As you can see, there are some genetic concerns. Most are extremely low. None need testing for to eliminate from your line. Anyone could be eliminated if they did show up. The genetic faults that can't be texted for have to be eliminated the old fashion way. Everyone including me that have had the tests done have never had a fault show up. The breeders before us have either not had the faults show up or are lying about them. Or maybe it's like the old breeders of hunting dogs. When problems show up they don't breed to that dog.
We as breeder have been handed down an extremely healthy breed. One of the healthiest.
So what happens as a breeder if one of your dogs comes up as a carrier? Is it the end of the world, and can you breed to a dog that carries a genetic defect. The answer is yes and no. The way that one could go about it is fairly easy if it's one of the ones you texted for. Let's say your dog has came up positive for Degenerative Myelopathy, not as having it but as being a carrier of it. Remember it takes two carriers, so the sire and dam must both be carriers. First step is to identify a mate for your dog that is not a carrier. All pups in the breeding of a carrier to a not carrier will be healthy and not will have the Degenerative Myelopathy. Some of the pups will be carriers and some will be perfectly find and will not be carrier. All pups that are carries will be placed into non breeding homes, and all non carriers are fine to breed to. If you kept one for your breeding program the carrier sire or dam could be replace. How ever if the dog was valuable enough it could be continued to be used in the same manner.
Remember these test have just became available in the last ten years, and the use of them are not fully understood or utilized.
What about all the other performance tests that are out there? Look at all the testing and trials that are going on to test a German Shorthairs hunting ability. Surly as a breeder of hunting dogs one must get involved and test your dog. How on earth could you otherwise prove to people that you are a good breeder. You might want to get into showing your Shorthair, I mean someone should be telling you how good looking your dog is. Also all those FC, and Ch before all those dogs in your dogs pedigree prove how wonderful your dog must be. It also must be true that if you do get a Championship of some kind, or Hunt test title, or a good NAVHDA score then your dog must be good to go as breeding dog in your program.
Years ago I was pretty pleased how everything in our breeding program was going. I had a lot of dogs under my belt. They were finding and pointing a ton of these desert Gambel quail, holding wild pheasants in places like South Dakota, treeing a bunch of foxes, finding bobcats and wild cats and putting them up trees as well. Rabbits were being tracked down and retrieved. Dove being found and returned by the truck load. Ducks were no match even in the thick stuff. I was hunting everyday and watching young dogs develop. I was seeing the benefit of the pack. I was learning lines and reading everything.
Lady who's dad was a field trial Champion and mother a solid liver hunting dog had retrieved about 600 wild birds before she was 20 weeks old, and could find any dead bird, and who would kill herself to retrieve a hurt duck was looking pretty good as were many of the dogs in our program. Many were not and I was learning things from all of them.
Then one day I was thinking about this NAVHDA thing. The North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association. I got to thinking that maybe they are doing something in there program I need to be doing. Maybe they are testing the dogs in a manner that I'm not and it's helping them produce better, more versatile hunting dogs. I mean look at the name.
So I signed myself up for one of those weekend Judging seminars, and off I went. I do admit that the people were nice and I had a great time. And guess who taught the class. Bob West himself. I spent some time with Bob, had lunch with him and others, drove around with him and even got a hat from him.
It also gave me some time to talk to the NAVHDA breeders. I remember it as if it were yesterday. I was walking in the field and asked one of the breeders if they tested their breeding stock for natural retrieve? Nope, no need to was the answer. Because as I learned with most testing and trial formats the dogs are forced fetched. Wow, well do you at least see if they have a natural retrieve before doing the forced retrieve. No was the answer.
My response to this breeder was my old school thinking that a hunting dog should do what every that breed was bred to do naturally because most people have never heard of such a thing as force fetch training. My father looked at me as if I lost my mind when I later explained it to him. Hell in my day old Jack would track and bring down a deer, point a pheasant and bring it back, and go get that duck, and kill a cat. Never needed any training.
When I told the breeder about people not knowing about force fetch, and training and such he just nodded and kept walking. Then we went to a few alfalfa fields and put out some bob white quail. A wired haired dog of some kind was brought out to hunt for these. We were being shown how to judge this. I though what in the world is this dog doing. Anyone one my dogs if asked to check out this field would have covered it 10 times faster and better than this dog. Then it also dawned on me. My dogs will not go into an alfalfa field. They learned that game is to be found in the cover, the edge area. But alfalfa fields are nice, flat and clean. So let's plant the bird there.
Then we at some point moved to the water. I had already learned the hard way that not all German Shorthair lines are created equal when it comes to water. There are the no way I'm going in there, the ok, just a little, the Oh yea this is fun, and the hell yea this is what I was bred to do. They wanted to see how the dog went into the water and how he searched the water with no help from you. Navhda's strong point in my opinion is water. But I do remember thinking if I wanted a dog to search an area I would just pick a rock up and let the dog know where I wanted it to go, I mean a young dog.
Then there was a track, birds were almost always used. You can bring a rabbit or such if you wanted. A track was laid down and the dog was released to follow it. Super simple and did not seem like any type of a test, and as I remember was not scored as a tracking test buy under obeisance. There was no real fur work. The tests were as about as good as America had, but no where even close to what the German Club does.
This was called the natural ability test. Designed in theory I guess to measure a dogs natural ability. If the dogs were brought out at a certain young age with no training this may be true. But what this really was, was a test of dog training. The test in my opinion should have been called “The Natural Ability Test, to see how much Natural Ability your dog has to be trained for a Test”.
That being said, your dog must be good in the water, and that's a good thing for Shorthairs. Also believe me that when you move up to the dogs that receive a Versatile Championship, that is a horse of a different color and those are some strong desired, well trained, and talented dogs with some drive.
I left the NAVHDA Judging Seminar one step closer to being a judge. I often thought of starting a chapter in our area and helping other but it never came to being. I did however learn one thing, and that was training and testing in Navhda was not even close to what I was doing with my dogs. I was doing much more on every type of wild game.
So what test or trial would be the best? Well first and foremost keep this in mind. A hunt test or trial is by design supposed to judge your dogs ability to find and work wild game, mostly upland birds. Think of it as the game of trap and skeet, both designed to help you hit wild game birds. As all of us know who have shot competition trap, skeet and sporting clays. It's not the same as shooting wild birds.
Some trials in the old days were held by hunting wild birds. Hard to argue if the dog could find wild birds in the trial, he could find wild birds in the hunt. Not so anymore. Planted birds simply are not wild birds. I remember a seven year old boy of a hunter watching a bird dog challenge on tv. The boy asked after watching it a few minute, why are the birds letting the dog get so close? That my friend is the question.
I remember getting a highly trained German DK dog. He looked pretty good when I got him. He was heavy in the Wittekind German line, a line praised with natural ability. If you planted a bird for him he could find it easy, and he pointed well with a foot up which all German dogs do not do. He would retrieve a fox over a fence as well. I hunted him a year in good wild quail area. He never did point a wild quail. I got one litter out of him, but because he could not pass my standard I got rid of him and all his pups. It really was not fair to him. I wish I would have raise him from a pup and gave him a real chance to be a hunting dog.
A hunt test or trial does not mean a good hunting dog. If you then take him hunting and he proves to you that he is a hunting dog, well that's good. On the reverse a good hunting dog does not always prove a good testing or trial dog. I've come to the belief that a dog that must pass a hard hunt test or demanding trial, be it American or German often is a strong dog that must be hard enough to go through the tuff demands put on him.
So what else might help one in a Shorthair breeding program. An overview of the lines. As a general rule and in my opinion this is the way I see it. American Field Trial lines give you great run and a great cardiovascular system. Excellent point and back, and good bird finding ability, and contrary to popular belief they are good on fur. Sometimes a little a luff, but for the most part a very loving and kind temperament. German DK lines give you the greatest of water work. Honestly the best. Great natural retrieve. Sometime a not so hot Cardiovascular system, but some lines are very good. A bigger stockier dog. Great drive, great on fur, not a very good natural point or back. Very good temperament. English lines of German Shorthairs, are over looked and excellent. American Versatile lines are the real deal and are as good or better than any dogs in the world. American Hunting lines, here again as good as they get. Pay attention to what the breeder is breeding for. American Show lines, better than most other breeds hunting dogs, especially if they are doing some hunting or at least hunt test. They are often to stocky, short, heavy on their feet. Temperament is good.
That being said, anyone of these lines that are lacking in an area can be made whole in one breeding. That's right, one breeding. Breed an American Field trial dog who does not retrieve, does not like the water, works out to far, to a German DK dog who lacks point, and cardiovascular. There will be pups in the first litter who do it all. Pick them out and work on setting your line and you'll have it. A perfect German Shorthaired Pointer.
So no breeder if they understand the breed as a whole is very far away from breeding excellent Shorthairs. On the other hand continue to breed to dogs that are lacking, and you will always have pups that lack, and your line will always lack, and you may never know the deference because you don't know a good German Shorthair when you see one.
Remember this, if you want to be breeder, the people out there are no smarter than you. They know things you don't at first, but be true to the way you see it. Sit a goal of what is the perfect Shorthair in your mind and work to that end. Don't feel obligated in any way to do the things others are doing. Keep in mind that the average breeder last from 3 to 5 years. Be truthful, honest, fair, and kind. Make friends have fun, remember they are only dogs, the best of dogs for sure. Don't over demand your buyers with big complicated contracts. Try and leave the breed at least as good as you got it. Remember form follows function, and if they can do the job and cover ground they are built fine.
If you are thinking about breeding Shorthairs, there is a good chance you already have one and that's where you want to start. That's the way almost all breeders started.
If you don't have a Shorthair your really in luck because you can start anywhere. Find a breeder doing what you want to do and let them help you. If you want a show dog and want to win in the show ring you need to go to someone who is winning. If you want to do shoot to retrieve the same thing. Go to someone who is winning. You get the idea. Start with the very best dog or dogs you can find. One or two choice female will allow you to breed to outstanding studs that are out there, via semen or live cover.
I hope this at least gets you thinking.
I think the best compliment I ever got from another breeder was when he said “no one enjoys their dogs more than Randy does”.
Randy Randall
Desert Point Kennel
I am completely 100% dedicated to the breeding better German Shorthairs. I do only one thing “Shorthaired Pointer”. I'm I the best? Heavens no. But my belief is if you give an American the time and resources he or she can do anything better than anyone because of our freedom.
A Shorthair first and foremost is a hunting dog. Well not just a hunting dog, but the worlds best hunting dog. And America is a land of hunting. We as Americans can hunt our Shorthairs every day if we wish, and I wish.
Now I know hunting dog breeders, and believe me most would never post about it on Facebook. The rush of readers would be to much so I am going to step out here in the hopes of helping someone. If I'm corrected in some of my ways and that helps others, that will be good to.
One example of a dog breeder, and hunter is my uncle Mike. His dad and my grandfather was a southern coon and possum hunter out of Texas, and of course brought his dogs to Northern California, and hunted there. He also raise game chickens which is a performance based breeding style.
Mike has been in the bear hunting and cat hunting game for almost 40 years. One of his great dogs has alone treed more than one hundred bears. Year after year a single passion to tree black bears. When we talk of the AKC, and show breeders and such he has little tolerance. “They have ruined more good hunting lines, etc.”
I asked him about genetic problems, and hip problems? Why would we have those. Those have been bred out. See a performance based program. Any dogs with any problems would be out of the breeding program. I once asked him about a young female and how she was doing. I already knew how she was doing because I watched her. Oh he said, she is real good. When I asked him who she was going to be breed to her? He said Bart. That's her father I said. He looked at me as if I had just made the stupidest comment. Yea he said, he is the best, and the best I have ever had. The pups should be wonderful. That about sums up most breeders of hunting dogs.
I've read everything I can about German Shorthair breeding and breeders as well as the pointers, and a lot of other hunting breeds as well. I'm a fan of the Elhew line and Wehle himself. The Pottmes, and Hege-Haus lines as well as many German lines were heavy inbred, as well as our own Moesgaard Shorthairs and field trial line, but most breeders think it's the end of the world.
It has gotten to the point where so many breeder think that their way is the only and best way. Their dogs, their testing, their format etc. Most don't really even have a breeding program, don't know where they are going or why, but have almost no tolerance of others. They stay within their click and all other clicks are wrong. And even within their own group, truth be known no one is really doing it right but them.
Think of this: No one should breed a Shorthair unless they do it with the idea of improving the breed with their pups. Sound good until you look at all the groups in the Shorthair world. A huge gene pool, as big or bigger that all other dog breed. The groups in part are: American Field, National Shoot to retrieve, North America Versatile Hunting Dog Association. Show Dogs, as well as Hunters with their goals of a perfect hunting dog for what they are hunting. Those are in American. Also in American are the German breeders of the Deutsch Kurzhaar. The DK club stand is that in reality the Kurzhaar is truly a separate breed form the American derivative, the German Shorthaired Pointer. The Kurzhaar is bred according to a strict set of breed standards, which require testing in ability, conformation, and temperament before being allowed to breed. The DK club has a breed master and strict set of rule and guide lines that the body as a whole abides by.
So what does that mean? Well in short what one group might consider as helping the breed as a whole, the next group would consider terrible, or at the least not so hot.
The German club does not even consider most American Shorthairs pure Shorthairs. One reason English Pointer being added for bigger run. Each group for there own reasons believes what they are doing is the best for the breed. Each breeder believes they are doing the best in their group.
So where is truth? Well for me it's in the belief that there are no bad German Shorthairs, and the gratefulness that so many before me have paved the way that I might give it a try.
My try consists of a lot of Shorthairs. Every single group has blessed our program. Every line we have looked at, kept, rejected, or blended. Each line and individual dog has been given the same chance. Almost all from puppies. But before I tell you what their chance is, let me tell you what we are looking for in an individual dog.
First and foremost I want a great temperament, not just good but the most loving and kind. A dog that loves people, other dogs and even pups. Many of our dogs will not even bark at you. They are so happy to have you visit. Most will however bark, just ask the neighbor.
Second, we want a natural point and back.
Third, we want a natural retrieve.
Fourth, a great love of water, and water retrieving.
Fifth, a dog that hunts with and for the hunter at close to medium range, and that can find birds or furred animals of course.
Lucky for the non hunter these are the same things that work for them. The average person wants a loving dog with a good temperament, stays close and comes back and walks, rides, and hikes. Loves the water, and will retrieve a ball.
Not all Shorthairs are like this or do this. Remember it's all in the genes.
So what is each puppies chance, and what must the pup do to stay in the program? In our breeding program we breed almost all dogs looking for an expected outcome. But some are for the purpose of proving a belief, such as a field trial or show dog bred to a versatile hunting dog will produce what we want in at least some of the pups, even though one side is weak.
Each litter is tested at seven weeks using a modified Vulhard hunting test. We look for happy pups, bold, calm, retrieving, and pointing. We select a pup to be kept back from the litter. We would like to do what Wehle did and keep each pup to a year and then select the best pup, but this is simply not possible. People think I'm crazy for keeping one.
The remainder of the litter is sold. We try and under price and over deliver. Each pup has a 100 percent guarantee. Yes for any reason, we will take a pup or full grown dog back. Give you all your money back and retrain the pup or dog and re-home it. If for some reason you did not do your part and the dog is let's say gun shy we will let you keep the dog and give you another one free. If the dog was to get Parvo and it was your fault, we will give you another dog. We will help you with the training of the dog, free for a while, then we will charge at a very low price because we want to see our dog. We will be here 24x7 to answer any question. If you go on vacation we will watch your dog free.
Ok, so we kept one back, now what? Well the new prospect will come into our home in the puppy room area with a dogie door. There will be other pack members who will show the pup the ropes. The pup will be fed the very best raw diet and dry dog food. The pup will start to go out with the other pups from another litter that always seems to be around. This will be modified real hunts in real hunting areas with some of the bigger dogs. The pups will also be taken often to the water.
At the end of the year we take a closer look at the pup. Each prospect puppy will have to meet the above goals. Some will be moved on to hunting homes as started dogs at a fraction of what others are selling started dogs for. Most will have hundreds of wild bird finds.
The ones we keep back will be the real deal, at least for us. In the past it was not unusual for a 16 or 20 week old pup to have hundreds of retrieves on wild bird.
But it does not stop there. We hunt fur as well so we will be hunting a lot of rabbits, always a few fox and cats. They must be sharp to their pray. They live in a pack so all must be good there. They eat, sleep, play and hunt in a pack. But this does not mean that it's a pack hunt. Each pup and dog also always hunts as an individual. I want to see how their hunting skills develop.
I want dog that get along. No fighting. It's in the genes as well as development. A mean dog will never stay in the program. Some look at a pack and think a wild mob with no purpose, no control and no cooperation. That simple is not the case. Well at least not after the 1st five minutes.
I use no shock collars and no whistles. Well I can whistle somewhat. The fact is the pack is so in-tuned to me that if I simple stop all the dogs will come back and check in. If I turn around they will all turn around without a sound. I will let the pups know, it will take a bit for them to get it. But for the most part, the very first few days the pups are on board.
One other reason that this works so well is all the big run genes have not been bred out. All the individuals who hunt for themselves are not in our program.
As an American breeder I'm am blessed. Because I can use all the Shorthair lines that are out there. I can and do use the German DK lines, form Germany and other countries that I and my friends have. I can and do use our older American lines that many don't know about. I use NAVHDA lines, NASTRA lines, Hunting lines, and yes in some of our lines we have American Field lines. I even breed to a 100 % show dog with good results.
So now you might be getting the idea. There is little guess work on our part of what lines contribute what. What happens when lines are crossed. I have so many hours of hunting behind so many lines and crosses that I think I get it.
There are also other things that a normal breeder of a few dogs never get to really learn. What is it really like to live and spend every moment with so many different lines. The ability to have more than one sire without having to go out and use a completely unknown sire. Like Wehle once said about a champion that was being used by so many. I raised that dog, I know what his real faults are, and what have been covered up with training.
This is how we raise our dogs and puppies. All dogs live free in the pack. They all can go into and out of a climate controlled house. Fresh air, water, best of food, lots of outings and hunting, and the most import love. We love them more that most people love their kids. There is no chain or dog house. No kennel and run. No whelping outside or in a kennel.
All pups are whelped in the house, cared and loved. Many people think it's ok to keep them in a small area after 5 weeks. We don't they are move to a trailer that has bedding, fresh water, food, air conditioning, heating, lighting and a radio, with their mother. The mother has a bed to jump up on and get away from the pups. Soon the mother will be removed so she can recover. In the day time the pups can venture outside. The trailer is fenced in and the puppy can explore their world. They are given stimuli because if fosters future leaning. The pups are locked inside at night. Because I worry something might get them. The pups are played with, fed raw twice a day and their bedding kept clean by Jackie who works with us. She would be offended if you called her well kept trailer dirty.
Health. 30 GSPs times 365 days = 10,950, times 10 years = 109,500. Add 60 pups a year = 219,000. This is a lot of dog and puppy days. Also think of approx. 500,000 dog mile in the field. Plus a lot of friends who have GSPs as well as puppy buyers.
What health problems and or injuries am I seeing? 23 or so rattle snake bites. No death, loss of one eye. Leg, probable the most common but with little or now after effects. With all the running and jumping. The dog acts as if it's hurt real bad and within a short time they are fine. Two visiting dogs got broken legs. One jumped out of a moving truck after chewing it's way out and the other a young dog broke it's front let after running into something. Both healed fine. One dog got a site problem. We had bred to a Versatile Champion, one of the few times I went outside our kennel. It did not prove to be Cone Degeneration that Shorthairs can be tested for. Our female was never bred to again. One of our girls came up holding her back leg. We x rayed for hips but nothing way found. She was fixed, and 12 years later she is still one of the strongest hunters we have. Simple no stop. A few over bits, never an under bit. Uncommon but can happen. We never breed a dog with a bad bite. I know someone who has a Versatile Champion who breeds to there's. I guess when you got that type of money into a dog, and that great title your going to breed it. I never would keep a dog that I did not think was near the quality I'm looking for. That said, breeding can solve problems, some times it takes awhile.
We had two dogs get Valley Fever, a white field trial dog and her white pup. This might mean something like an immune system that was not strong enough. We have had about six cases of the puppy mumps. Antibiotics with a hormone take care of this.
Puppies born with hernias, we have had a few. Considered either a product of the mother not correctly cutting the umbilical cord, or a genetic problem.
We have had two dogs with cherry eye. Long established lines. The two newer dogs in the mating have been removed from the breeding program. The owner was reimbursement for the total $725 dollar vet bill. He loves the dog and the dog is doing great. But it is probably genetic.
Other genetic areas that have come up and addressed is aggressiveness. Way to many breeders breed to their dogs that are aggressive. Can't do it. That is an advantage to raising a pup. You can clearly see the problem, knowing that it was genetic and not developed.
What I have never seen or heard of in our lines or anyone else's. Hip Dysplasia, Shorthairs are 98 percent dysplasia free. I just don't see it. Never heard of it. I have spent so much time on it's study. Spent time talking to the experts at OFA, and believe it's not a problem in our active hunting lines. Check out this for something to think about. Also spend some time on the OFA web site.
https://thewholedog.com/canine-hip-dysplasia-things-to-ponder/
Cone Degeneration (German Shorthared Pointer Type). This is an early onset, which means all puppies will show it early if they have it. About a 2% probability according to the people at Paw Print Genetics are carriers, none have tested positive for having it. They told me they are simply are not seeing it. Both parents must be carriers so once the parents are cleared as in most other cases the offspring do not need to be tested.
Degenerative Myelopathy, this is a late onset, so your dog might be 9 years old before it shows up. But if it does show up your in big trouble. About 4.2%. This in my opinion and confirmed by Paw Print Genetics is the most import to test for. Even though they are not finding it in the Shorthairs they are testing. Meaning none have tested positive for having Degenerative Myelopathy, the 4.2 % are carriers. A late onset can cause problems. This being said, I know of know breeders in our lines or anyone else's who have dogs dying from this. This is like Lou Gehrig's disease. Because it starts in the back area of the dog at first it can look as a hip problem.
Hyperuricosuria, This is an inherited condition of the urinary system. Less than 2%. Meaning tested positive as carriers. Again they are not finding this in the testing. I've never seen it or heard of anyone having it, however Jill tested as a carrier.
Von Willebrand Disease II, Bleeding disorder. Less that 2%. Non have shown up in their testing as having Vonwillebrand Disease.
These are the four main test.
Another one only tested at University Pennsylvania is Lupoid Dermatosis, A serious degenerative disease that is only found in Shorthairs. It is usually noticed before the dog is six months of age when the skin starts getting crusty with scaling on the head, face and torso. It's itchy, and the joints are swollen and sore.
As you can see, there are some genetic concerns. Most are extremely low. None need testing for to eliminate from your line. Anyone could be eliminated if they did show up. The genetic faults that can't be texted for have to be eliminated the old fashion way. Everyone including me that have had the tests done have never had a fault show up. The breeders before us have either not had the faults show up or are lying about them. Or maybe it's like the old breeders of hunting dogs. When problems show up they don't breed to that dog.
We as breeder have been handed down an extremely healthy breed. One of the healthiest.
So what happens as a breeder if one of your dogs comes up as a carrier? Is it the end of the world, and can you breed to a dog that carries a genetic defect. The answer is yes and no. The way that one could go about it is fairly easy if it's one of the ones you texted for. Let's say your dog has came up positive for Degenerative Myelopathy, not as having it but as being a carrier of it. Remember it takes two carriers, so the sire and dam must both be carriers. First step is to identify a mate for your dog that is not a carrier. All pups in the breeding of a carrier to a not carrier will be healthy and not will have the Degenerative Myelopathy. Some of the pups will be carriers and some will be perfectly find and will not be carrier. All pups that are carries will be placed into non breeding homes, and all non carriers are fine to breed to. If you kept one for your breeding program the carrier sire or dam could be replace. How ever if the dog was valuable enough it could be continued to be used in the same manner.
Remember these test have just became available in the last ten years, and the use of them are not fully understood or utilized.
What about all the other performance tests that are out there? Look at all the testing and trials that are going on to test a German Shorthairs hunting ability. Surly as a breeder of hunting dogs one must get involved and test your dog. How on earth could you otherwise prove to people that you are a good breeder. You might want to get into showing your Shorthair, I mean someone should be telling you how good looking your dog is. Also all those FC, and Ch before all those dogs in your dogs pedigree prove how wonderful your dog must be. It also must be true that if you do get a Championship of some kind, or Hunt test title, or a good NAVHDA score then your dog must be good to go as breeding dog in your program.
Years ago I was pretty pleased how everything in our breeding program was going. I had a lot of dogs under my belt. They were finding and pointing a ton of these desert Gambel quail, holding wild pheasants in places like South Dakota, treeing a bunch of foxes, finding bobcats and wild cats and putting them up trees as well. Rabbits were being tracked down and retrieved. Dove being found and returned by the truck load. Ducks were no match even in the thick stuff. I was hunting everyday and watching young dogs develop. I was seeing the benefit of the pack. I was learning lines and reading everything.
Lady who's dad was a field trial Champion and mother a solid liver hunting dog had retrieved about 600 wild birds before she was 20 weeks old, and could find any dead bird, and who would kill herself to retrieve a hurt duck was looking pretty good as were many of the dogs in our program. Many were not and I was learning things from all of them.
Then one day I was thinking about this NAVHDA thing. The North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association. I got to thinking that maybe they are doing something in there program I need to be doing. Maybe they are testing the dogs in a manner that I'm not and it's helping them produce better, more versatile hunting dogs. I mean look at the name.
So I signed myself up for one of those weekend Judging seminars, and off I went. I do admit that the people were nice and I had a great time. And guess who taught the class. Bob West himself. I spent some time with Bob, had lunch with him and others, drove around with him and even got a hat from him.
It also gave me some time to talk to the NAVHDA breeders. I remember it as if it were yesterday. I was walking in the field and asked one of the breeders if they tested their breeding stock for natural retrieve? Nope, no need to was the answer. Because as I learned with most testing and trial formats the dogs are forced fetched. Wow, well do you at least see if they have a natural retrieve before doing the forced retrieve. No was the answer.
My response to this breeder was my old school thinking that a hunting dog should do what every that breed was bred to do naturally because most people have never heard of such a thing as force fetch training. My father looked at me as if I lost my mind when I later explained it to him. Hell in my day old Jack would track and bring down a deer, point a pheasant and bring it back, and go get that duck, and kill a cat. Never needed any training.
When I told the breeder about people not knowing about force fetch, and training and such he just nodded and kept walking. Then we went to a few alfalfa fields and put out some bob white quail. A wired haired dog of some kind was brought out to hunt for these. We were being shown how to judge this. I though what in the world is this dog doing. Anyone one my dogs if asked to check out this field would have covered it 10 times faster and better than this dog. Then it also dawned on me. My dogs will not go into an alfalfa field. They learned that game is to be found in the cover, the edge area. But alfalfa fields are nice, flat and clean. So let's plant the bird there.
Then we at some point moved to the water. I had already learned the hard way that not all German Shorthair lines are created equal when it comes to water. There are the no way I'm going in there, the ok, just a little, the Oh yea this is fun, and the hell yea this is what I was bred to do. They wanted to see how the dog went into the water and how he searched the water with no help from you. Navhda's strong point in my opinion is water. But I do remember thinking if I wanted a dog to search an area I would just pick a rock up and let the dog know where I wanted it to go, I mean a young dog.
Then there was a track, birds were almost always used. You can bring a rabbit or such if you wanted. A track was laid down and the dog was released to follow it. Super simple and did not seem like any type of a test, and as I remember was not scored as a tracking test buy under obeisance. There was no real fur work. The tests were as about as good as America had, but no where even close to what the German Club does.
This was called the natural ability test. Designed in theory I guess to measure a dogs natural ability. If the dogs were brought out at a certain young age with no training this may be true. But what this really was, was a test of dog training. The test in my opinion should have been called “The Natural Ability Test, to see how much Natural Ability your dog has to be trained for a Test”.
That being said, your dog must be good in the water, and that's a good thing for Shorthairs. Also believe me that when you move up to the dogs that receive a Versatile Championship, that is a horse of a different color and those are some strong desired, well trained, and talented dogs with some drive.
I left the NAVHDA Judging Seminar one step closer to being a judge. I often thought of starting a chapter in our area and helping other but it never came to being. I did however learn one thing, and that was training and testing in Navhda was not even close to what I was doing with my dogs. I was doing much more on every type of wild game.
So what test or trial would be the best? Well first and foremost keep this in mind. A hunt test or trial is by design supposed to judge your dogs ability to find and work wild game, mostly upland birds. Think of it as the game of trap and skeet, both designed to help you hit wild game birds. As all of us know who have shot competition trap, skeet and sporting clays. It's not the same as shooting wild birds.
Some trials in the old days were held by hunting wild birds. Hard to argue if the dog could find wild birds in the trial, he could find wild birds in the hunt. Not so anymore. Planted birds simply are not wild birds. I remember a seven year old boy of a hunter watching a bird dog challenge on tv. The boy asked after watching it a few minute, why are the birds letting the dog get so close? That my friend is the question.
I remember getting a highly trained German DK dog. He looked pretty good when I got him. He was heavy in the Wittekind German line, a line praised with natural ability. If you planted a bird for him he could find it easy, and he pointed well with a foot up which all German dogs do not do. He would retrieve a fox over a fence as well. I hunted him a year in good wild quail area. He never did point a wild quail. I got one litter out of him, but because he could not pass my standard I got rid of him and all his pups. It really was not fair to him. I wish I would have raise him from a pup and gave him a real chance to be a hunting dog.
A hunt test or trial does not mean a good hunting dog. If you then take him hunting and he proves to you that he is a hunting dog, well that's good. On the reverse a good hunting dog does not always prove a good testing or trial dog. I've come to the belief that a dog that must pass a hard hunt test or demanding trial, be it American or German often is a strong dog that must be hard enough to go through the tuff demands put on him.
So what else might help one in a Shorthair breeding program. An overview of the lines. As a general rule and in my opinion this is the way I see it. American Field Trial lines give you great run and a great cardiovascular system. Excellent point and back, and good bird finding ability, and contrary to popular belief they are good on fur. Sometimes a little a luff, but for the most part a very loving and kind temperament. German DK lines give you the greatest of water work. Honestly the best. Great natural retrieve. Sometime a not so hot Cardiovascular system, but some lines are very good. A bigger stockier dog. Great drive, great on fur, not a very good natural point or back. Very good temperament. English lines of German Shorthairs, are over looked and excellent. American Versatile lines are the real deal and are as good or better than any dogs in the world. American Hunting lines, here again as good as they get. Pay attention to what the breeder is breeding for. American Show lines, better than most other breeds hunting dogs, especially if they are doing some hunting or at least hunt test. They are often to stocky, short, heavy on their feet. Temperament is good.
That being said, anyone of these lines that are lacking in an area can be made whole in one breeding. That's right, one breeding. Breed an American Field trial dog who does not retrieve, does not like the water, works out to far, to a German DK dog who lacks point, and cardiovascular. There will be pups in the first litter who do it all. Pick them out and work on setting your line and you'll have it. A perfect German Shorthaired Pointer.
So no breeder if they understand the breed as a whole is very far away from breeding excellent Shorthairs. On the other hand continue to breed to dogs that are lacking, and you will always have pups that lack, and your line will always lack, and you may never know the deference because you don't know a good German Shorthair when you see one.
Remember this, if you want to be breeder, the people out there are no smarter than you. They know things you don't at first, but be true to the way you see it. Sit a goal of what is the perfect Shorthair in your mind and work to that end. Don't feel obligated in any way to do the things others are doing. Keep in mind that the average breeder last from 3 to 5 years. Be truthful, honest, fair, and kind. Make friends have fun, remember they are only dogs, the best of dogs for sure. Don't over demand your buyers with big complicated contracts. Try and leave the breed at least as good as you got it. Remember form follows function, and if they can do the job and cover ground they are built fine.
If you are thinking about breeding Shorthairs, there is a good chance you already have one and that's where you want to start. That's the way almost all breeders started.
If you don't have a Shorthair your really in luck because you can start anywhere. Find a breeder doing what you want to do and let them help you. If you want a show dog and want to win in the show ring you need to go to someone who is winning. If you want to do shoot to retrieve the same thing. Go to someone who is winning. You get the idea. Start with the very best dog or dogs you can find. One or two choice female will allow you to breed to outstanding studs that are out there, via semen or live cover.
I hope this at least gets you thinking.
I think the best compliment I ever got from another breeder was when he said “no one enjoys their dogs more than Randy does”.
Randy Randall
Desert Point Kennel